Shahzad Ismaily: „I was sticking my face deep into the music“

I first met Shahzad Ismaily through the Monheim Triennale, a festival I have the great pleasure of co-curating and working with in various capacities. Shahzad was part of the first generation of so-called “signature artists” who came together in 2021—at the height of the pandemic—to create music. That experience profoundly impacted all of us, and since then, he has, in a way, become an honorary Monheimer.
The night before our meeting, Shahzad invited me to an incredibly inspiring concert by Peni Candra Rini at Roulette – besides Shahzad, Andy McGraw, Curt Sydnor and members of NYC’s Gamelan Kusuma Laras joined in the concert.

There’s a recording available on Roulette’s website that I highly recommend, as well as her album „Wulansih“, released through New Amsterdam Records. Coincidentally, when photographer Jonathan Forsythe and I arrive at Shahzad’s studio for our conversation, we find William Brittelle—co-owner of New Amsterdam Records—working there.

Peni Candra Rini hails from Surakarta, Indonesia, but her music extends far beyond local traditions. She weaves together influences from Japanese and Chinese musical heritage, as well as Italian opera, creating a mesmerizing fusion. It’s no surprise to spot artists like Laraaji and Marc Ribot in the audience, drawn to her unique sound.

 

Shahzad Ismaily: Sorry, I took a nap and somehow…

Do you also live in the building?

I live right upstairs. I went up to take a nap around 12 30, I imagine I just napped for a short time – well, I woke up at 2 15.

Well then the body needed it.

Yeah.

Because normally you nap 30 minutes and the body lets you go again.

Exactly, then you wake up.

Have you always been living in this area or did you move here when you opened the studio? Because it seems rare in New York, that one works in the same building he lives.

This all started more like 2014. Before that I was living in lots of different neighborhoods in Brooklyn. There was even a time when I didn’t have an apartment, I was actually traveling so much that I just had all my things in storage. I just arrived here, would stay with a friend for a couple days, pick up a different instrument, go back on the plane and leave for a few weeks. It’s alright for some time but then it gets also very exhausting because you never have some private time.

Right.

That’s really the question – how do we do things in a way that’s good for our health?

Especially in a city as demanding as this, you need places where you can relax and escape the pressure—otherwise, you’ll just burn out.

That’s so true.

So we are walking to the school of your daughter Anika?

Yeah, we’re walking to my daughter’s school and then we’ll pick her up.

You try to do this every day?

Whenever I’m in town I try to do as much picking up and dropping off with her as I can.

That’s nice.

Do you have a kid or not yet?

No kids.

(We walk past the Brooklyn Public Library, with its majestic golden Egyptian-style doors, and the Botanical Garden.)

You live in a really nice neighborhood. You were lucky to find this whole house—a space where you could bring all your ideas to life.
While you were napping, Bill gave us a little studio tour. He mentioned that people working in the upstairs studio often cross paths with those working downstairs in the coffee area. By chance, they start chatting and, more often than not, end up contributing something to each other’s records.

Yes. This is the thing that makes me so proud of the studios – people will meet one another, they’ll work on each other’s records, even tho their music is sometimes extremely different.
So for example, Peni, who you saw yesterday, was recording downstairs, and then she came upstairs to check out the session that William was doing – and then all of a sudden she’s recording on their record; it was like a really special indie rock composer guy named Dan Langa, he wasn’t expecting or planning that and then such a unique voice appears on his recording.

Oh, that’s beautiful.

It is beautiful.

It’s like how it should be more often.

Exactly.

We need more environments in which the artists have the air to change their original plans and react to what´s happening.

That’s how I feel.

Shahzad, I loved the warm and welcoming speech you gave yesterday before the concert when introducing Peni. You said—half joking, half serious—that we’re lucky to be together in this moment, alive in this room, at this time.

It’s the only moment when everyone in that room is alive.
I should have gone further and said, Some of you will be dead sooner than others.

That would have been a bit dark to say!
The concert was really something else—so beautiful.

I’m glad you felt that way.
It really was. I’d love to hear your thoughts—anything you liked or didn’t like. Just to keep in mind for the future.

Peni has such an open heart. It’s rare to encounter an artist who expresses everything so honestly through their face

Yes.

Her expression is so natural—she creates no distance at all. It’s clear she isn’t concerned with how she looks or how the audience perceives her; she’s simply performing.

That’s beautiful.

I mean, all the stories she told the audience before playing each song—handwritten in advance since her English isn’t perfect—were so charming and eye-opening, giving us a deeper understanding of the background of her music from Java.

That’s so true; it’s incredibly rare.

What stuck with me most was how unlikely her journey was—how a little girl from a village on the island of Java made it all the way to New York to become an artist.

I’m so glad that it came through because I think she and Andy McGraw worked pretty hard on those pieces.

I got the impression that it was difficult for you to play those compositions.

Yes, it is very difficult because for me, I’m not coming from that tradition or that background. And so like any language, it has its syntax. It has its grammar. And people who are deeply inside the language, they don’t see those structures anymore. They’re so used to it.
Like someone that speaks German, French, any language of the world, they can immediately, subtly understand – but if you do not speak it.… Do I use a preposition here? Is this a female word? Is this a male word?
Pretty much everyone else on that stage had studied music from that culture very strongly. So I was looking at notation that’s specific to Java and Indonesia. In this notation, they write down in numbers with dots where you are in the piece. I have been total unfamiliarity with it. And above, there’s also a legend saying number one equals this, number six equals that. So I’m playing, but then I’m also double checking.

You looked like someone trying to read without glasses.

Yes.

You were getting really close to it.

Yeah, because my eyesight is terrible too. You’re right—I was almost burying my face in the music.
think it made everyone feel like they were collectively sitting on the floor, each person stitching part of a carpet. And if you accidentally placed a red thread where there was blue, you’d mess up everyone else’s pattern. You’re literally continuing the giraffe that the person on your right is making. There’s this feeling of collective responsibility.

But would it feel like a mistake? Or would it be more like a slight decoloring?

I think you’re right from the perspective of the West, which is quite helpful sometimes. It could just feel like a decoloring or like an interesting shade or just an unusual moment. But maybe from the perspective interior to Javanese music, it would feel more like the boat falls to the right. And then you have to have a rebalancing.
And let’s say during the boat ride, you’re beginning to feel so confident in the stability of the boat that you begin to allow your mind to see things beyond the boat. You see your own history. You see your mother. You see your father. You see the sunset.
When the boat tips, you lose that train of thought and you become more aware of the boat again.
And I think this is what’s magical about it.

Do you feel that her music is typical of Java? I’ve been thinking about this for two reasons. First, I wondered how it is that she’s receiving recognition so far from home. And second, musically speaking, I felt her compositions are so full of diverse influences.

You’re absolutely right. She is maybe the highest composer in Java – and that’s why she made it. And she was already open to other parts of the world before coming over here – and that’s why she made it. It’s not like she is just more typical of that tradition.

To me, her compositions also contained elements from other Asian music traditions, like Chinese and Japanese, as well as influences from Italian opera.

Absolutely. I felt the same thing when she was singing a couple of moments. I thought this is really not far from opera right now.

It is rare, that someone performs ten songs, like she did last night, and each is unique in its own way.

Yeah. It’s more like really exploring music, exploring language.

So I wonder, should I bring her to Monheim? And if so, should we take the opportunity to do something bigger, more intense, like her and me integrating with the other people who will come next year, something collaborative, or just the two of us, or a band, like yesterday?

It’s difficult to say, because I really enjoyed what I heard yesterday. I think she’s accustomed to a setup for her compositions with other artists who are aligned with that mindset. You also mentioned that earlier when you spoke about your own experience with her music.

Shahzad, do you enjoy living in Brooklyn?

You know, if I was really able to seek deep in myself what I would enjoy, not thinking about my daughter and work, I would probably love to live by the ocean someday.

Yes.

Maybe the warm ocean, whether it’s the Mediterranean, someplace where you wake up in the morning and could walk on the sand and in the water. I think I would love that very much and hope for it someday.
Like when my daughter is off from home, going to college or whatever she wants. And when she thinks about her dad – who then lives in Argentina or ives in Algeria or whatever –, she feels like I wanna visit him there.

The chances of her visiting you are definitely higher if you’re not from a small town in the middle of nowhere—and still living there. Nobody really wants to go back to those small towns.

That’s true. Marc Ribot said the same thing last night about his daughter. At least we live in New York. They wanna come back to the city and their friends.
So this is my daughter’s school.

(Shahzad enters the school yard to pick up his daughter Anika)

Hi there. I heard so much about you. I’m happy to finally meet.

Shahzad: Do you want me to take your backpack?

Anika: Yes, please.

Shahzad: Where would you like us to go right now? Do you have any requests?

(We decide to go to a healthy smoothie place, where Anika and Shahzad are regulars)

Shahzad: Anika, so with Thomas’ job, he might like to ask you some questions about anything, okay?

Anika: Yes.

Do you like going to school?

(Anika is busy making her smoothie—and one for me too, but it’s not just to drink. There’s a game involved: how many of the ingredients can I taste? So for now, Shahzad is answering.)

Shahzad: I’m very lucky, she’s always liked school. But I’m very grumpy about it because this is what’s called a public school, so it’s not very creative, and I feel aggressively uncomfortable about it.
But she’s happy about school, which is good.
I still want to find a better one where there’s a bit more arts integrated into the daily school time.

But maybe she’s happy because she has art and the freedom to explore at home.

Shahzad: Yeah, exactly. The thing is, you never really know what internal temperament your kid has. It could be that she’s someone who thrives on structure—lunch at 12, recess at 2, and so on. Though I’m not like that, it might suit her perfectly, so in that sense, maybe it’s ideal.

By having the full spectrum of possibilities, she’ll be able to make a free decision later on.

Shahzad:  This is what other people have said too, she watches everything and then integrates it.

I love how her school friends still pass by here on the sidewalk, and how conversations naturally flow in and out.

Shahzad:  Yeah. It’s very sweet. The great thing about this school, we can walk to it.

Anika: You’re not allergic to anything, are you?

No, I am not.

Anika, how many kids are in your class?

Anika: 27, I’m the 28th. So: 28 kids.

That’s a lot. Do you feel these are too many for real interaction?

Anika: No, there’s two teachers, so…

Wait, two at the same time?

Yes: Two teachers.

Wow, we didn’t have that when I was a kid. Two teachers in one classroom.
Do you like talking in front of the class?

Anika: Yeah.

But do you like also sitting in the class still?

Anika: No.

Because I see you moving and dancing the whole time.

Anika: No, I don’t like that bit, but it’s okay.

What did you learn today?

Anika: Our last subject today was geography. I love geography.
And today we have technology class, which we only have on Tuesdays. We have computers, this long screen, this tall screen, a keyboard, and a mouse. And today we played mouse games, „ Drag and Drop“, „Dance Mat Type“ and typing without looking. „Drag and Drop“ is where you try to get the dragon to the chicken bone and there are like so many levels.

Oh.

Anika: You have five lives and that’s the way it lasts the entire game.

How much time are you on the computers in relation to being not on computer?

Anika: It’s probably like 30 minutes or 40 minutes of computer class.

A day? Every day?

Anika: Not every day, just on Tuesdays.

Ah, right.

Okay, so let´s start the game. I wanna taste this Smoothie and guess what´s in it.

Shahzad: Oh, you can see if Thomas has the delicacy to taste it and know what’s in there.

Or maybe not.
I have a feeling there’s strawberry inside. Is there a chance?
And of course there are chocolate chips on it, dark chocolate. That makes us happy.
And there’s mint inside.

Anika: Yes!

Shahzad: It´s good for the lungs.

Hmmm, it’s very difficult to say what else is there.
Am I also right with strawberry?

Anika: Yes.

Shahzad: So far you got three out of eight ingredients total: Chocolate chips, mint and strawberry.
I’m just going to say, one of the ingredients is the main base of the smoothie, like what is the main liquid in the smoothie.

It’s difficult. Is this almond milk?

Anika: Yes.

I really like that Smoothie. It’s very significantly not sweet.

Shahzad: You don’t like sweet so much.

Anika: That’s right.

Shahzad: This one is into sour. And tangy.
I’m more into sour, savory and bitter.

Interesting.
Wait, is Passion fruit inside here too?

Shahzad: Whoa! That’s a really unique flavor to guess. You’re up to five out of eight.

(Anika shows me the full order. I missed = watermelon, mango and pant protein.)

This is for me as a gift?

Anika: Yeah.

Thank you.

Shahzad: Okay, Anika, do you know what an interview is?

Anika: Yes.

Shahzad: What is it?

Anika: The person asks the other person a question and they write it down and then they like post it somewhere.

Shahzad: That’s right. Come over here. And one of the basic things of an interview is, you have to stay close to the microphone.

So, Anika, do you like it when papa gets you from school?

Anika: Yeah.

So you’re sad when he’s not around to get you from school?

Anika: Yeah.

You’re giving all the right answers here.

Shahzad: Now Anika, here’s the thing about being interviewed, okay? You can say whatever is true for you, whatever is true in your heart. You don’t have to worry about what anyone thinks.

And the most important thing is, in the beginning you say: „I want to read it before you publish it!“

Shahzad: Oh yeah.

Because that way I have to show it to you before. You have all the rights afterwards to say no. Or to change things. These are your words. But you have to say it before you talk. After the talk by journalistic law, it’s my material.

Shahzad: That’s right.

Anika: So yes, I wanna see it before it gets printed.

Sure thing.
What’s your favorite class in school?

Anika: Probably, if I had to choose it would be geography.

I had geography as masterclass too. I guess because already back then I loved to travel so much.
Wait, you’re drinking my drink.

Shahzad: Oh Anika darling.

Anika: Sorry, wrong one.

No problem.

Shahzad: You always have to ask if you’re doing it.

Anika: Sorry, they look exactly the same.

You’re right. No problem. Totally fine. Thanks for saying sorry.
So you like to travel too?

Anika: Yeah.

What’s the place you want to travel to the most?

Anika: Probably Australia.

Australia? Why that?

Anika: Because of the koalas. I want to adopt a koala.

Shahzad: Anika, can I tell you something funny about you saying that?
I had a secret plan right after Christmas to take you to a music festival in Australia this year. Do you want to do that?

Anika: Yes! Koala.

Shahzad: I’ll do my best for us to find a koala. They must have a zoo where we could go hang with the koalas.

Anika: If you’re gonna ask me my favorite holiday, then I’ll probably say Halloween.

What?

Anika: If you’re gonna ask me my favorite holiday it’s probably Halloween.

Halloween?

Anika: Yeah.

You are so good, like your father. You already bring up your own questions.
So: What do you want to dress as?

Anika: Oh, I haven’t decided yet but I have thought of costumes for my dog. Like maybe a tiny little dragon costume or a little knight costume.

I love the videos when dogs are wearing costumes. It’s kind of ridiculous but it’s funny.

Anika: Or a little shark or a hot dog or a cucumber.

Shahzad: I believe there’s a big parade in Manhattan, like a dog Halloween parade.

Really?

Shahzad: Where all the dogs dress up.

That’s insane.
Anika, of course I am also interested in your least favorite class,
Is it mathematics?

Anika: No, writing.

You don’t like to write?

Anika: I don’t really like it.

Do you think it’s more the physical part of writing letters or just putting words to thoughts?

Anika: I don’t have a lot of ideas for writing.

I see. You can come to Germany and I’ll teach you writing because that’s my profession.

Shahzad: Wow.

And you can learn German and writing together.

(Anika is totally not interested in this combination of Germany and writing)

Shahzad: We would often go to a small children’s theater in Manhattan and it was actually run by some Germans.

Anika: This is supposed to be my interview. This is so private.

Are you censoring your father?

Anika: Yes.

Are you physically censoring your father?

Anika: Yeah.

All tricks are on the table here.
What’s your favorite music right now?

Shahzad: Gee, that’s a tough question.

Well, that’s my job. I come up with the tough ones.

Anika: „Bring Me to Life“ by… by Evanescence.

I drink so much faster than you.
Are you a connoisseur when it comes to food and drinking?

Shahzad: Sweetheart, do you know what a connoisseur means?

Anika: Yeah.

Shahzad: What?

Anika: No.

Shahzad: So a connoisseur means someone that carefully and slowly enjoys something.

What’s your favorite dish?

Anika: Um, brussels sprouts.

Wow, you have really a taste here.
What’s your favorite place in New York City?

Anika: Leroy’s Place.

Shahzad: It´s a gift shop.

Anika, thank you so much for this interview.
And now, let´s go to Leroy’s Place.

Anika: You are welcome.

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